I already explained my point about it. A lot of companies rebased themselves when political issues occured. The Linux Foundation could easily do that. It’s just racism.
Sanctions against a country/nation that is attacking another sovereign nation are not “racist”. Russia could easily stop their war to start getting rid of the sanctions.
It depends, though. There are western and other countries invading and much worse, but there are no sanctions. It could be racism, interests or both that only a certain country is targeted with sanctions.
There should be sanctions on every country invading. Its not rocket science. It’s crazy to say that russia is being sanctioned for racist reasons. They are literally attacking an European nation. Makes sense that other European countries sanction them, no?
Yes, there should be sanctions against any country doing that and worse. But there aren’t. Why not? I see a lot of downvotes and no explanations. As per Europe, aren’t we talking mostly about US, since Linux is trying to follow their sanctions? Also even Europe is divided about who the enemy is, like pesky Hungary.
Switzerland is currently sanctioning Russia. Let me say that again to be clear: moving to Switzerland, the most neutral country in the world, will not prevent you from having to abide by sanctions against Russia.
“Russian” is not a race. And Finland has a history with Russia that isn’t easily forgotten. That is to say, every Finn I’ve spoken to hates Russia for invading Finland… Twice…
Finland isn’t even the only neighbour that hates Russia. At some point one has to wonder why so many of Russia’s neighbours hate, or at the very least don’t feel comfortable with, Russia.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason why everyone is having issues with Russia is Russia’s own damn fault.
Do they? They could have just isolated those commits as sanctioned and added a warning. Linux hates Russians as a Finn, so didn’t need much convincing to remove them.
I would be singing a different tune if our allies invading other countries at the moment were also sanctioned, but that’s not the case.
As it stands, let the individuals escape the nation state punishment. They didn’t start this war, and likely don’t support it.
Rationally speaking, the whole purpose of sanctions is to sanction the whole population of the country in order to get the government of the country to change it’s policies. And when it comes to sanctions, companies and entities doing business with the sanctioned countries are themselves sanctioned. So Linus had no choice but to remove the Russian contributors.
We’re talking about a real situation, not about what would be better.
So your advice is basically “come on, guys, you can resist russian aggression in ways that don’t involve conflict, stop the sanctions and side with Russia pls”?
No. As the instigator of this conflict, Russia can back the fuck down.
At this point I’m sure you’re just trolling. I fully support sanctions against Russia but not against Russian people unless they were officially proven to actively support the war, especially if their actions don’t result in income to Russian Federation in taxes. I think I made it clear.
Also Linus supports US’s terroristic acts and invasions by paying taxes to the country so it’s not necessarily any better.
Sovereignty is the deeper moral right. It is any sovereign individual or group’s right to accept or reject an authority they choose to, and they must deal with the consequences of that (often implicit) choice.
A sovereign entity who is by choice or otherwise subject to a malign power will become a channel for that malign power, regardless of whether or not they intend to. And even when there is no malign intent, there can be fundamental disagreements between sovereign states.
It is very possible the individuals don’t support Russia. But aside from aiding and supporting defection, there’s not much we can do until Russia demonstrates a will to relinquish a hold on Ukraine, who has clearly demonstrated their sovereignty.
This is an opinion but a very questionable one. However it’s impossible for those who support it to understand it because of their severe mental issues. That’s where physical elimination should come into play imo.
Also since both of our opinions include aggressive attitude towards certain groups, you may not argue with that aspect.
Are you lost? This is not reddit. Also, Russia could stop attacking an european nation to gain some respect back. But they won’t. Instead they threaten everyone with nukes daily and cry why nobody likes them.
I think they are lost of they think a federated platform can only have people who agree with them. When you make a choice to create software that’s federated, it’s not “yours” anymore, and people on the platform who disagree with you are just as much members as you are.
You think open source project maintainers should move to different countries because of temporary sanctions? What if they have a wife with a job and kids in school? Or delicate Lego collections that are impossible to pack? Or a side-piece?
Take issue with the sanctions if you want but don’t take issue with people who don’t want to move their family, LEGO collections, and side-pieces.
There are hundreds of Linux developers, including companies like Red Hat, Intel, IBM, Google, and more. You want all these people to up and move to… where? Somewhere. Russia, or a Russian ally presumably but hell if i know. Anyway you want them all to move so a handful of people working for Russian weapons manufacturing companies can keep maintaining pieces of the Linux kernel?
Move physically? Of course not. If it’s required to register the foundation, they could ask a maintainer from the country to register it. It’s not the cleanest of schemes but it should work. Though if Linus lives in the US now, it can still cause issues because US law system has been proven to not work and they could easily arrest him illegally if they wanted to. However in this case it’s the same as living in Russia. Both countries are terroristic.
You can disagree with the law if you want, but breaking the law (sanctions) and being arrested is a legal arrest.
I have tons of issues with the US legal system, but I don’t pretend like everything I agree with is legal and everything I disagree with is illegal. That would be moronic.
Continued use of the swastika in his military and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge how many Soviets the Finns starved to death in Leningrad while working with the Third Reich, presumably.
Playing the “but they have Nazi supporters in their military” game can be played all day. It’s silly. Every military probably does. It turns out assholes love killing people and Nazis. They’ll probably join the military to get permission to kill people.
I think the comment was about the Finnish Air Force not dropping a literal swastika from their coat of arms until just a few years back. Like you know, the official government sanctioned Air Force, the whole thing and not just a single batallion
Ah, yeah. OK. That isn’t a nazi reference. Nazis chose the swastika because it’s present in many cultures. A key thing is there’s is rotated 45°. If you notice, the one the Finnish Air Force had is the tradition rotation. It’d been in use since 1918, before the Nazis started most of their shit. It had nothing to do with them, and was a prominent symbol in their culture. Calling it a Nazi symbol is a lie, and it’s probably on purpose to be misleading.
Edit: They didn’t say it was a nazi symbol, just a swastika. It was implied to be bad though, which implies it was a Nazi reference.
It is bad enough not to remove it for 70 years after the nazi genocide, but I guess Finns get a free pass on anything due to their extremely unique cultural heritage
It sucks that Nazis get to ruin cultures symbols who had no association with them. However, they prominently used eagles in their imagery, and somehow that isn’t ruined. Should every nation have to stop using eagles or be called Nazis? That’s stupid, right?
Also, they largely did stop using it after WWII, as the article mentions. It was still used it some emblems, flags, and decorations, but not as common. It’s still on the Finnish flag of the president, though it’s got different proportions and you’d look like a complete idiot for implying it’s a nazi symbol there.
The swastika is all over the world. It’s a very basic geometric symbol. It is no surprise it’s appealing. Go play Minecraft or something and make a symmetric design, and odds are you’ll make a swastika. I know playing Factorio I see it appear all the time. Nazis ruined a really cool perfectly innocent shape, and it’s honestly time we should try to recapture it.
Or, hear me out, we don’t recapture it because it has a fucked up context. It might not seem like a big deal for those who haven’t been close to the terror, but not everybody lives on the other side of the world.
And yeah, using nazi-adjacent eagles or fasces (like your government proudly displays in many symbols) is pretty fucked up too.
Posting a new comment after I looked up the Finnish Air Force, which I’m assuming this is vaguely referencing. It isn’t a Nazi swastika. It is a traditional swastika that has been in use in their culture for a long time. The nazi’s chose the symbol because it’s present in many cultures and they wanted to take it to give them legitimacy. There’s is rotated 45° though. The Finnish Air Force had been using it since 1918, before the Nazis. To imply a negative connection implies it’s a Nazi symbol, which it wasn’t. You’re being purposefully misleading (which isn’t unexpected sadly, and you’ve probably heard this from someone else misleading you), but you aren’t accurate.
bullshit, his statement was unprofessionally filled with glee at banning russians who he clearly sees as evil as a whole, as he’s banning people who have nothing to do with the war that he has worked with for years just so he can make a libshit stink over it.
I completely agree he was unprofessional about it and should have handled it better. It was his choice in how he communicated it, and I think he failed on that point. Having said that, it was not his choice to do it, and I’m sure he will undue it when it’s legally possible. Hopefully using better judgement on his choice of words then.
The principle remains. “My government is bad so I have to also be bad” is not a valid argument, no matter the relative levels of badness. It’s a lazy, morally bankrupt worldview
And Linus didn’t do his racist shit while dragging his feet anyway, he did so gleefully and while repeating chauvinist racist narratives
Would you support him banning AmeriKKKan and Isn’treali developers too, given that their countries’ war crimes are far grander in scale, horror, and devastation than Russia’s?
Plus, they actually have a history of injecting backdoors into everything. Israel’s government is known in the international stage for their espionage and blackmail first and foremost (on the domestic, for their genocide of course).
Yes, all of the people who initially used the software and tested it before you are the people who already moved away from Reddit for ethical reasons, not because of the API catastrophe. We are more likely to be on the older instances, not the Reddit instances. Lemmy.ml users tend to be far more politically aware of how propaganda works and avoidant of US interference. New instance users like to cheerlead the US exactly like reddit does.
Wherever there’s Americans, there’s fascists. Their media is so xenophobic all the time they think not calling for concentration camps for Mexicans is all it takes to not be racist. Can’t believe it’s not just acceptable, but popular to act like Finland has any right to be xenophobic against Russians.
“But the war”, yeah, check again when the winter war was and what exactly Finland wanted to achieve. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
The Finnish winter war is harrowing to read about, especially the effects on their history departments. They are all completely devoted to whitewashing Nazis. If you haven’t read Tepora’s Finnish Civil War 1918 History Memory Legacy I recommend finding the time.
And yes it’s ridiculous. Not calling for EVEN MORE concentration camps for Mexicans while still maintaining the current border system impresses them.
Still not saying it’s any good after he became geopolitical.
Literally required to do it by law of sanctions
He would only escape if he was a presidential candidate or a multi billionaire.
Since he is neither and he works on US soil, then the law came after him. You would cave in, if in similar circumstances.
I already explained my point about it. A lot of companies rebased themselves when political issues occured. The Linux Foundation could easily do that. It’s just racism.
Sanctions against a country/nation that is attacking another sovereign nation are not “racist”. Russia could easily stop their war to start getting rid of the sanctions.
It depends, though. There are western and other countries invading and much worse, but there are no sanctions. It could be racism, interests or both that only a certain country is targeted with sanctions.
There should be sanctions on every country invading. Its not rocket science. It’s crazy to say that russia is being sanctioned for racist reasons. They are literally attacking an European nation. Makes sense that other European countries sanction them, no?
Yes, there should be sanctions against any country doing that and worse. But there aren’t. Why not? I see a lot of downvotes and no explanations. As per Europe, aren’t we talking mostly about US, since Linux is trying to follow their sanctions? Also even Europe is divided about who the enemy is, like pesky Hungary.
One country cozying up to print is hardly a reason to call the entire EU divided
Don’t want to diverge the thread in nitpicking, but it’s not just one country and some countries play both sides.
Neither Russian nor Western are a race.
You’re right. Racism here should be replaced with hate against a nation.
Then other countries should make sanctions on the US where it masters to them to do so.
Lol sanctions and racism are different. My argument about relocating destroys yours.
So your argument is that Linux foundation should relocate to… where? Sorry that was such a bad argument that I did not even consider it being one.
Why would they relocate? To keep a few Russian maintainers? Because not relocating is “racist”? Not sure what you mean, just trying to guess.
Savage truth.
Somewhere stable and neutral like Switzerland or some island. I’m not a lawyer so can’t say which country is the best for it.
To some extent, yes.
Switzerland is currently sanctioning Russia. Let me say that again to be clear: moving to Switzerland, the most neutral country in the world, will not prevent you from having to abide by sanctions against Russia.
“Russian” is not a race. And Finland has a history with Russia that isn’t easily forgotten. That is to say, every Finn I’ve spoken to hates Russia for invading Finland… Twice…
Finland isn’t even the only neighbour that hates Russia. At some point one has to wonder why so many of Russia’s neighbours hate, or at the very least don’t feel comfortable with, Russia.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason why everyone is having issues with Russia is Russia’s own damn fault.
That’s true but nowadays the word “racism” is used as a full synonym to “discrimination”.
A person who thinks that the terms “Russia” and “a Russian citizen” are the same is hopeless and must be eliminated at all costs.
Counter argument: The maintainers could “easily” relocate to a country that is not currently conducting an invasion to enlarge its territory.
Ok this one is actually decent.
As I understand it was employer-based ban, not country-based.
Usually uprooting your life and moving to another country implies a job change. At least that’s how I read the comment.
Maintainer of Baikal SoCs not employed by Baikal sounds tough to find.
It’s not racism. They have to follow the LAW.
Do they? They could have just isolated those commits as sanctioned and added a warning. Linux hates Russians as a Finn, so didn’t need much convincing to remove them.
I would be singing a different tune if our allies invading other countries at the moment were also sanctioned, but that’s not the case.
As it stands, let the individuals escape the nation state punishment. They didn’t start this war, and likely don’t support it.
Sanctions have effect precisely because they are a broad tool.
Of course that’s how sanctions work… against nations. Linux isn’t a country, it’s not an American asset. They could have resisted. Linus chose not to.
Wisely.
Short-sightedly.
Rationally speaking, the whole purpose of sanctions is to sanction the whole population of the country in order to get the government of the country to change it’s policies. And when it comes to sanctions, companies and entities doing business with the sanctioned countries are themselves sanctioned. So Linus had no choice but to remove the Russian contributors.
We’re talking about a real situation, not about what would be better.
Ok buddy
“A lot of companies” completely left the sphere of influence of basically any country except Russia? Doubt.
I know the company i work for has to take similar steps when the sanctions went into effect, for example. Same as almost everyone.
…it’s not. It is stupid, it stalls mainlining of Baikal, but it is not a racism.
They are bound by USA sanction law, moving to another NATO country would be same sanctions against Russia
I honestly don’t remember saying anything about NATO.
So your advice is basically “come on, guys, you can resist russian aggression in ways that don’t involve conflict, stop the sanctions and side with Russia pls”?
No. As the instigator of this conflict, Russia can back the fuck down.
At this point I’m sure you’re just trolling. I fully support sanctions against Russia but not against Russian people unless they were officially proven to actively support the war, especially if their actions don’t result in income to Russian Federation in taxes. I think I made it clear.
Also Linus supports US’s terroristic acts and invasions by paying taxes to the country so it’s not necessarily any better.
Sovereignty is the deeper moral right. It is any sovereign individual or group’s right to accept or reject an authority they choose to, and they must deal with the consequences of that (often implicit) choice.
A sovereign entity who is by choice or otherwise subject to a malign power will become a channel for that malign power, regardless of whether or not they intend to. And even when there is no malign intent, there can be fundamental disagreements between sovereign states.
It is very possible the individuals don’t support Russia. But aside from aiding and supporting defection, there’s not much we can do until Russia demonstrates a will to relinquish a hold on Ukraine, who has clearly demonstrated their sovereignty.
This is an opinion but a very questionable one. However it’s impossible for those who support it to understand it because of their severe mental issues. That’s where physical elimination should come into play imo.
Also since both of our opinions include aggressive attitude towards certain groups, you may not argue with that aspect.
Huh?
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It certainly looks that way.
HAHAHA THEY REMOVED YOURS TOO, this instance is tankie GARBAGE
Don’t say the big R-word or they’ll remove your post. That’d be POLITICS! Even if it is directly related to what you’re talking about.
Not just politics! They removed our comments for “misinformation”. Very big brother, very cool, definitely no suppression of speech here
LMAO they removed my comment
It certainly looks that way.
Had a stroll through his profile and he’s clearly only here to troll.
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Redditors can’t help themselves but be racist against russians.
Are you lost? This is not reddit. Also, Russia could stop attacking an european nation to gain some respect back. But they won’t. Instead they threaten everyone with nukes daily and cry why nobody likes them.
Asks the fucking developer of lemmy if they’re lost. fucking lmao
I think they are lost of they think a federated platform can only have people who agree with them. When you make a choice to create software that’s federated, it’s not “yours” anymore, and people on the platform who disagree with you are just as much members as you are.
Redditors are garbage, to paraphrase the POTUS.
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You think open source project maintainers should move to different countries because of temporary sanctions? What if they have a wife with a job and kids in school? Or delicate Lego collections that are impossible to pack? Or a side-piece?
Take issue with the sanctions if you want but don’t take issue with people who don’t want to move their family, LEGO collections, and side-pieces.
There are hundreds of Linux developers, including companies like Red Hat, Intel, IBM, Google, and more. You want all these people to up and move to… where? Somewhere. Russia, or a Russian ally presumably but hell if i know. Anyway you want them all to move so a handful of people working for Russian weapons manufacturing companies can keep maintaining pieces of the Linux kernel?
This is obviously a non-serious suggestion.
Move physically? Of course not. If it’s required to register the foundation, they could ask a maintainer from the country to register it. It’s not the cleanest of schemes but it should work. Though if Linus lives in the US now, it can still cause issues because US law system has been proven to not work and they could easily arrest him illegally if they wanted to. However in this case it’s the same as living in Russia. Both countries are terroristic.
You can disagree with the law if you want, but breaking the law (sanctions) and being arrested is a legal arrest.
I have tons of issues with the US legal system, but I don’t pretend like everything I agree with is legal and everything I disagree with is illegal. That would be moronic.
This has to be a record for the most downvoted comment on Lemmy, holy moly. This is a huge absolute margin even for reddit.
Well I am the most controversial Lemmy user. That was expected after getting a lot of upvotes.
alright, chill
He is a finn, what do you expect from him? I fully support his position
Really sticking it to those… friendly Russian kernel maintainers. Really doing your part for your individual Two Minutes Hate.
So presumably, as a consistent person that is outrages by invasions and death, you call for the expulsion of all Americans and Usraelis, right?
Continued use of the swastika in his military and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge how many Soviets the Finns starved to death in Leningrad while working with the Third Reich, presumably.
There are plenty of people with swastikas fighting for Russia too. For example Dmitry Valerievich Utkin (Дмитрий Валерьевич Уткин).
Playing the “but they have Nazi supporters in their military” game can be played all day. It’s silly. Every military probably does. It turns out assholes love killing people and Nazis. They’ll probably join the military to get permission to kill people.
I think the comment was about the Finnish Air Force not dropping a literal swastika from their coat of arms until just a few years back. Like you know, the official government sanctioned Air Force, the whole thing and not just a single batallion
Ah, yeah. OK. That isn’t a nazi reference. Nazis chose the swastika because it’s present in many cultures. A key thing is there’s is rotated 45°. If you notice, the one the Finnish Air Force had is the tradition rotation. It’d been in use since 1918, before the Nazis started most of their shit. It had nothing to do with them, and was a prominent symbol in their culture. Calling it a Nazi symbol is a lie, and it’s probably on purpose to be misleading.
Edit: They didn’t say it was a nazi symbol, just a swastika. It was implied to be bad though, which implies it was a Nazi reference.
It is bad enough not to remove it for 70 years after the nazi genocide, but I guess Finns get a free pass on anything due to their extremely unique cultural heritage
It sucks that Nazis get to ruin cultures symbols who had no association with them. However, they prominently used eagles in their imagery, and somehow that isn’t ruined. Should every nation have to stop using eagles or be called Nazis? That’s stupid, right?
Also, they largely did stop using it after WWII, as the article mentions. It was still used it some emblems, flags, and decorations, but not as common. It’s still on the Finnish flag of the president, though it’s got different proportions and you’d look like a complete idiot for implying it’s a nazi symbol there.
The swastika is all over the world. It’s a very basic geometric symbol. It is no surprise it’s appealing. Go play Minecraft or something and make a symmetric design, and odds are you’ll make a swastika. I know playing Factorio I see it appear all the time. Nazis ruined a really cool perfectly innocent shape, and it’s honestly time we should try to recapture it.
Or, hear me out, we don’t recapture it because it has a fucked up context. It might not seem like a big deal for those who haven’t been close to the terror, but not everybody lives on the other side of the world.
And yeah, using nazi-adjacent eagles or fasces (like your government proudly displays in many symbols) is pretty fucked up too.
Posting a new comment after I looked up the Finnish Air Force, which I’m assuming this is vaguely referencing. It isn’t a Nazi swastika. It is a traditional swastika that has been in use in their culture for a long time. The nazi’s chose the symbol because it’s present in many cultures and they wanted to take it to give them legitimacy. There’s is rotated 45° though. The Finnish Air Force had been using it since 1918, before the Nazis. To imply a negative connection implies it’s a Nazi symbol, which it wasn’t. You’re being purposefully misleading (which isn’t unexpected sadly, and you’ve probably heard this from someone else misleading you), but you aren’t accurate.
Ok western chauvinist. Why doesn’t he ban the genocidal Israelis? It’s because he is full of shit and a racist
Because he’s not making any political, moral, or personal decisions, and only follows the law he is forced to.
When the law forces him to sanction Israel, he will do so, and when the law stops forcing him to sanction Russia, he will stop doing so.
bullshit, his statement was unprofessionally filled with glee at banning russians who he clearly sees as evil as a whole, as he’s banning people who have nothing to do with the war that he has worked with for years just so he can make a libshit stink over it.
I completely agree he was unprofessional about it and should have handled it better. It was his choice in how he communicated it, and I think he failed on that point. Having said that, it was not his choice to do it, and I’m sure he will undue it when it’s legally possible. Hopefully using better judgement on his choice of words then.
It was his choice to be a baby brained racist, how nice
No, not nice at all. I’m answering your question on why he doesn’t ban Israeli contributors, not deliberating on the niceness of anyone in particular.
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Would you say that Linus was “just following orders” of the Finnish government
…because removing somebody’s kernel maintainer priv and the industrialised genocide of people is remotely comparable.
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The principle remains. “My government is bad so I have to also be bad” is not a valid argument, no matter the relative levels of badness. It’s a lazy, morally bankrupt worldview
And Linus didn’t do his racist shit while dragging his feet anyway, he did so gleefully and while repeating chauvinist racist narratives
not all of us are crazy 😭
Not all but a lot
fair lmfao. i’m intentionally here in attempts to out-populate the crazy
His position is that he’s an asshole who won’t stand up to the US lol
not to be a bigoted piece of shit? i guess we can’t expect that from either of you worthless hounds.
if he wasn’t a complete hypocrite he’d ban people from the u.s. and israel as well.
come on now, not all Finns are fascist dipshits, the Punakaarti were great
Would you support him banning AmeriKKKan and Isn’treali developers too, given that their countries’ war crimes are far grander in scale, horror, and devastation than Russia’s?
Plus, they actually have a history of injecting backdoors into everything. Israel’s government is known in the international stage for their espionage and blackmail first and foremost (on the domestic, for their genocide of course).
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So you’re a russophobe as well?
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Yes, all of the people who initially used the software and tested it before you are the people who already moved away from Reddit for ethical reasons, not because of the API catastrophe. We are more likely to be on the older instances, not the Reddit instances. Lemmy.ml users tend to be far more politically aware of how propaganda works and avoidant of US interference. New instance users like to cheerlead the US exactly like reddit does.
Wherever there’s Americans, there’s fascists. Their media is so xenophobic all the time they think not calling for concentration camps for Mexicans is all it takes to not be racist. Can’t believe it’s not just acceptable, but popular to act like Finland has any right to be xenophobic against Russians.
“But the war”, yeah, check again when the winter war was and what exactly Finland wanted to achieve. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
The Finnish winter war is harrowing to read about, especially the effects on their history departments. They are all completely devoted to whitewashing Nazis. If you haven’t read Tepora’s Finnish Civil War 1918 History Memory Legacy I recommend finding the time.
And yes it’s ridiculous. Not calling for EVEN MORE concentration camps for Mexicans while still maintaining the current border system impresses them.
Well, when you put it like that, I expect him to join the Israeli death squads “out of pragmatism”
cool
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