I’m not blaming them for an unknown apps developers choices, i’m blaming them for putting on their site that deb packages is the heart of ubuntu, but when i complain here that installing one is a nightmare on the latest ubuntu i get thrown at my head that installing deb packages is a stupid idea and i should somehow know better.

You can keep throwing up strawmen, but that won’t change my point in anyway. But you can keep ignoring the point i guess, you’re quite good at it it seems.

That the ecosystem seems so complex that even developers don’t know how they should recommend their users should install an application. Haven’t encountered that yet on windows. And i’ve had plenty of people here tell me “yes, you CAN install deb packages, and many apps will GIVE you deb packages, and the ubuntu page says Debian packages is the very HEART of ubuntu. But you’d be insane to install something like that”. Does that sound like a good ecosystem, where people aknowledge that the best way to do stuff is ignore everything app developers & the makers of one of the largest distros say, and do the opposite and ignore apps that you can’t install in the way that i should magically know is the best way.

I stand by my words man, but you’re free to try to convince me :).

I am talking about a specific distribution, the one i was posting here about, so then we can stop this thread here i guess :).

To install something you have to install it from the repository, and not download something from some webpage.

Ah yes, i should have known better than to rely on the documentation of the website of an application i should install. Do you guys really consider this a sane ecosystem? I google what kind of apps there are for what i want. I find the site of one i want to try, it says “here is a deb package for ubuntu”, and then hell ensues. And when i share this experience your reaction is “you should have known better” O_o… yeah no. This is just insanity. If according to you even the developers of applications fail to send their users in the right direction on how to get their application installed, there is probably little hope for a mere user like me.

Thanks for the suggestions :). I think in about 50 replies you’re the first that’s like “hey, maybe there is some way to get VRR working on linux”, and not be like “why would you want that? just ignore the stuff that doesn’t work on linux”.

I’m probably going to stick with windows a bit longer for now, and i’ll give it another try when i read that wayland is a bit further along since it sounds like what i need, but is still in its infancy.

I know it’s not literally the same, but it’s the exact same principle, ubuntu breaking installing deb packages would be equivalent to microsoft breaking installing msi packages. You do understand analogies i hope and realize that it’s often impossible to find 100% exact matches when you want to make a comparison.

I wasn’t on the ubuntu machine anymore, so i couldn’t quickly find the link to the SMB issue, but you’re in luck, someone else in this thread already did (he linked it with (in capitals) WHAT THE HECK as link title): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1697817

And he understood my frustration that such a bug would be open for about 5 years now across multiple major versions. :) . Now i’ve manually mounted some of the shares, the file manager suddenly also uses a better version of SMB to fetch the shared folders and it suddenly works. But this should take googling & terminal work to just explore a network share from a desktop environment.

Right clicked the .deb package > Open with other application > Open with the Ubuntu software install center app

That’s because you’re so lucky to not be on a clean 23.10 install, since as i showed in the link i posted, it’s not there in a clean 23.10 install for some reason :). I found tons of links saying i should right click, and open it with an application that for some mysterious reason was missing on my ubuntu install :).

Yeah, but unlike me she isn’t a professional developer that has some experience with headless linux systems.

And please, don’t avoid the real question: What exactly would be the linux way? It’s a nice thing to repeat, but how would you describe the linux way in this context? I’m a new linux user, i want kodi to switch my display to the correct refreshrate when i play a movie. I want to follow the linux way, what is that way?

Ah, i see you found the same ticket i did.

Sorry for not posting that link, but i’m now not on the ubuntu machine (for maybe obvious reasons), so i didn’t have easy access to the exact error message & ticket ^^'…

I can tell you i don’t need any windows experience to browse a discovered network share, enable a setting in an application and have it just work, and click an .msi file and expect windows to not have removed the handler for that file type.

I get it, you like linux, but blanket statements like this are just so unproductive. “and it’s a much better experience for me than Windows (in every aspect).”. Sorry, i just don’t believe you. I’m sure you’re happier with linux for many good reasons, but there have to be things that windows did better.

Just because you are a “power user” on Windows doesn’t mean you can handle Linux the same way.

I’m not expecting that, i just wrote this after 5 hours of frustration when trying to get imo pretty basic things to work. This is not just “i clicked or installed something and it didn’t work”. I’m a developer, i’ve got many docker packages running on my NAS, i know my way around a linux terminal. This is “they didn’t work, so i started googling, then 2 hours of frustration later i settled on not being able to just browse to my network share in the file manager and mount them somewhere via some fstab editing in the terminal”. and "ffs, i just wanted to try a docker gui, how hard could it be to install a deb package which the ubuntu site itself says “deb packages are the heart of ubuntu” (ubuntu must be stone dead if that’s the heart). And the refreshrate & HDR is nice to have i guess. But yeah, i want nice things, they don’t seem such unreasonable features to request. And i wouldn’t mind if i had to follow some complicated guide to get there. It’s just after hours of googling, i’m no closer then where i started.

What exactly would be the linux way? It’s a nice thing to repeat, but how would you describe the linux way in this context? I’m a new linux user, i want kodi to switch my display to the correct refreshrate when i play a movie. I want to follow the linux way, what is that way?

Worked perfectly for me 20 years ago. What was the error message you got, again?

failed to retrieve share list from server invalid argument

You said later that when you did it via the command line, it didn’t work anyway. Which was more or less what I told you might well happen because downloading .debs from the internet is a bad idea.

Are you serious? I just googled “is installing deb packages on ubuntu good”, from ubuntu.com ( https://ubuntu.com/about/packages#:~:text=‘Deb’ packages are the heart,with rich and dynamic dependencies. ) :

‘Deb’ packages are the heart of Ubuntu The ‘deb’ package format comes from the Debian Linux distribution and is widely considered the best package format for system-level libraries and applications with rich and dynamic dependencies.

If i have to describe gaslighting, i would give this as an example. The websites of linux application offer deb packages mentioning explictly they are for ubuntu. The ubuntu site itself says “Deb packages are the heart of ubuntu”. I try to install one, the linux community: “are you stupid? What gave you the idea that downloading a deb package that said it was for ubuntu and trying to install it was a good idea?”

DK, man, I’m a little reluctant to continue this because I keep trying to tell you about how you should use Linux and you keep seeming to think that I’m trying to trick you or something

I’m trying to install a package the way the developer says i should, and the distro says is the very heart of the distro. And you find it strange that your replies come across as blaming the user and a bit ridiculous?

All this then says to me is that i should find myself a linux teacher to teach me the arcane linux knowledge, since the most direct documentation of app developers & distro developers is the exact opposite of what i should do?

I’m sorry, but to me it just sounds like you’re making excuses for linux since you like it. This comes more across as the infamous “you’re holding it wrong” iphone issue. I’m sure there are many ways to do things in linux, but you can’t blame me for being skeptical when you say this so very well documented & recommended way of doing things by both the app developer & distro creators is not the way to do things…

What was the error message? I want to investigate this a little bit.

failed to retrieve share list from server invalid argument

but I’m sure you weren’t trying to come in here and coming across as aggressive either.

I knew i wouldn’t come across too well XD. I might as well have posted this on the “off my chest” community. This was written in frustration so will be negative & harsh, but i’m technical enough to also know that at least 2 of the issues i mention are pretty unforgivable. But just browsing to an SMB share that is discover relying on a protocol that is deprecated and was exploited over 6 years ago by ransomware… Gotta love linux security focus. And that installer suddenly disappearing from ubuntu… nice way to ruin your user experience and make anything they google obsolete and unhelpful and make it hard to figure out how to install stuff when it’s not in the default app manager.

And i love how the refreshrate issue is like a magnet for people here to be like “yeah, but do you really need that” (and while they’re at it ignore the other 2 issues, since they’re inconvient to address). But our eyes are really god at detecting disturbances in smooth motion. I can at least easily spot it, try it next time you watch something on your tv, whenever the camera pans, if the refreshrate & framerate don’t perfectly divide, it’s visible. It can not bother you, good for you, it does bother me. It’s like if i say “you’re now on manual breathing mode”, and for the next 5 minutes you’ll be very aware you’re breathing. If the camera makes a nice large panning movement, and i point out how you can see the framerate not matching the refreshrate, you’ll probably keep seeing it whenever the camera pans…

If “cool stuff on windows” is going to your file manager and browsing to a network share, and that working, and not having the stable version of the OS suddenly lose its installer for a specific kind of files… Then yeah, i should probably stick to windows. I can kind of get the refreshrate thingy, although it’s still pretty pathetic after all these years. And reading up on HDR (which is 20 years old by now), feels equally pathetic. Yes, i’d like to be able to use my linux desktop to be able to play video files as intended: with the monitor/projector switching to the correct refresh rate (so you don’t see a slight stutter whenever the camera pans), and with HDR if applicable.

I made this thread about 5 hours after i installed ubuntu, you guys seem to be avoiding actually knowledging that these are some huge glaring issues that completely ruin the user experience, and be like “but look at the cool stuff linux can do”. I know the cool stuff linux can do, i’ve got a dozen docker containers running on my synology doing home automation/downloading/servers of all kinds/… I just hoped the linux desktop experience would be… at least tolerable and not 5 hours of frustrated googling trying ‘advanced things’ like… browsing to a network share, installing a package i get when i click on ubuntu/debian on the site of a linux application (and i didn’t post the whole ordeal, then installed a tool to install the package, that failed due to some dependency, then installed it via the command line, that then also gave all kinds of errors, which the instructions found perfectly normal), or playing a video file the way it’s supposed to be played.

If you really think those 3 above usecases are “cool windows stuff” and “it’s unrealistic to expect these from linux”, can you please say that explicitly? Browsing to a network share, installing a .deb package supported on a debian based OS, and playing a HDR video file in HDR and at the correct framerate with your display are “unrealistic expectations”. The last one you might be able to make a tiny bit of a case for, but the other 2… for real??

I guess it kind of helps, but that means that the linux desktop will always be a shit experience, and i should just stick to my headless linux servers and find something else if i want a GUI… which is kind of sad…

And the strength you see in linux… ok, WSL in windows is probably a bit less efficient, but for most usages all those windows downsides are now moot with WSL & docker. if i want to install a web server and wordpress, it’s just as easy as any linux server. And installing programs like image editors, can’t say i’ve ever encountered issues doing that on windows.

Of course i know the main advantage of linux is no spyware crap, but it’s kind of sad if after all these years that’s pretty much still the only advantage. And i do use many open source apps in spite of free(mium) or cheap commercial/cloud alternatives existing that are more user friendly, if it gets the stuff i want done done, it’s good enough. But it seems i’m still not ready for the linux desktop experience, no matter how often it’s repeated on the fediverse here how good it is now…

What steps did you do that led you to conclude that SMB v1 was the issue?

I typed in the exact error message i got in google, and found the issue is that it tries to use SMBv1 to get the list of shares, and if it’s disabled on the server, you’re out of luck.

Was the video quality noticeably off in any way

It was running 24fps video on 30hz refreshrate. It’s subtle for sure, but easily noticable. It means every 5th frame last twice as long as the others. If the camera pans, you just see it isn’t perfectly smooth. It isn’t a complete disaster, but is it really that hard of a feature? I can kind of get the “you don’t need it” in some cases, but i’ve spend all this time & money on a nice projector & sound system to watch movies. I don’t want to see some slight stutter whenever a camera pans since my OS can’t match my refresh rate to the video it’s playing. Even though i can manuallly switch to that exact refresh rate if i wanted to.

seem to be under the impression that Ubuntu is supposed to install .debs you downloaded when you click on them

Dude, it is. Google it yourself. Pretty much every single link you find when googling why clicking on deb files gives an error that the application for such files is not founds shows you how to assign the default installer in ubuntu to those files so it works. You’re really gaslighting me here. this is expected behavior, everything you can google indicates it is expected behavior, i gave you the link about someone helping with alternatives now they suddenly broke it, but that link also says they expect it to soon be fixed again in ubuntu. But now i complain about it being broken and you’re all like “that’s totally not expected behavior”.

Look, i get it, you like linux and are happy with it. But you can’t just wipe any negative experience under the carpet with gaslighting like this. That’s just ridiculous. It is expected behavior for a distro like ubuntu, and pretending it is not is just ridiculous.

I’m a developer, go for it :).

Unlike on Windows, errors here are usually informative, and “something like …” is useless. We can’t trust you to determine if it’s vague or not.

Yeah, i’m a developer, the error i got was about as helpful as “nullreference exception”. I found the issue was the SMBv1 default by googling the exact error. Here it is for you “Failed to retrieve share list invalid argument”. Really helpful message :).

The article advises you to install GDebi from repositories (with a nice GUI) to do that. Have you done that?

Yes, and then got stuck since that tool failed to find something called gconf2 that is a dependency. Then i followed command line install instructions that also gave errors. Which the instructions found perfectly normal and expected, they said to then run an apt command to fix it, but then apt would just uninstall the application again (which i guess ‘fixes’ a botched installation).

But you find it normal that the application normally handling .deb files on linux just disappears on a popular beginner distro, and to install something i have to start googling and avoid all the links telling me to use the built in application that suddenly disappeared, to then find that one link that tells me “yeah, ubuntu made a huge mistake here, here’s how you fix it”.

Sorry, but this is just abysmal user experience. And yeah, i’m a developer, i can find my way around command line tools, but for something this basic? for real?

Your fault is treating it wrong. If others don’t need it and you need it, why cry that desktop Linux sucks? Maybe it sucks for you, well, sorry.

So i should expect every little thing to be a minor or major struggle, with the rich ecosystem of linux apps be so fragmented to mostly just work on the distro the developer uses, which you have to guess since they might still mention your distro on their website, even if they don’t really properly support it.

If treating it wrong means not making linux my hobby, and just wanting to use it like i can with my headless servers, then it’s indeed not for me. And yeah, i’ve head my moments of frustration with my synology/raspberries. But most of the things i want to do on them do work from the first try, and if a gui is offered, it just works. If that’s too high of an expectation, then you just come across as delusional for me. I don’t expect everything to be perfect, but for it to be this bad in 2023 just seems ridiculous. And maybe i just happened to land in a perfect storm of things that don’t work on ubuntu being the first things i try. But then being like “maybe linux isn’t for you”. I’m a professional developer running multiple headless linux machines and a dozen docker containers for various things. If it isn’t for me, who is it for O_O…

Maybe the refreshrate issue could be driver related, but hardware decoding works. And intel 13th gen is 2 years old now, it’s not as if i’m on bleeding edge hardware. The other 2 issues (SMB & installer) aren’t even hardware related at all.

And from what i’ve read the past years, hasn’t linux support for newer things improved a lot? Ok, if a new cpu/gpu releases, maybe wait a couple of months for linux to be stable, but 2 years should be fine these days right? I don’t think any of my issues are related to hardware support.

Ahh the favourite pasttime of the linux community: blaming the user.

See, i install ubuntu. It has this files application to brows your files in a gui. I click other sources, it detects my SMB shares, i click on one of those, and i get some vague error, i no longer have the exact error text but it was something like “item not found in list”. You feel that on a fresh desktop install clicking the files tab, and then clicking the discovered network share, and expect it being able to handle a protocol that got exploited in 2017 being disabled, and then throwing an error “item not found in list” is me just randomly clicking around expecting a windows experience and me not being able to read error messages? You’re so far off the mark that it’s not even funny anymore. Yeah, i’ve got a dozen containers on my synology with proper permission management and shared users between those containers, properly exposing some to the internet, and having set up watchtower to automatically update everything to keep it secure since i’m such a windows user that doesn’t know anything else…

Ubuntu does still have a GUI to install software from .deb packages, I think.

dude, CLICK THE LINK I GAVE, IT DOESN’T. and what do you mean install a package for another distribution. https://dockstation.io, see the link “download for ubuntu/debian”. I’m just doing what the first application i thought of trying tells me. Or do the developers of linux apps themselves have no clue how to support the most popular distro? According to you that may be the case, but that’s not my fault then.

And why did i google software? i entered “docker” in the package manager but didn’t find much, so i thought i’d give google a try. also to get some reviews/experience of people trying the applications, i could blindly try packages, but reading some user experiences makes the choice easier.