I see you like things that work. We’ve decided that we’ll break it, and sell you the solution. We call it service.
Them: this is pretty good right? And affordable too!
Me: yeah it’s decent, don’t touch anything
Them: we’ve put in ads
Me: what? I don’t want ads, wtf
Them: bro, totally have you covered. No ads for $12.99 a month
Me: arr matey, don’t worry yerself 🦜🏴☠️
This is why I felt like the best thing we all could do is reject every ounce of advertising we could. Marker up all the billboards. If you’re watching a video and x3 3 minutes ads play, Leave comments about how the product gave you a bad rash. Make it so all these companies remove themselves from spaces we enjoy. It would also help get rid of the fucking content creators trying to be a copy of the latest and greatest channel but instead waters down the internet with the 10000000 clone of the latest and greatest
I agree. I also think ads do influence us way more than almost anyone would believe or admit. Why else would companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars on ads without batting an eye. Many products cost as much or less than their ad campaign cost to make.
So I try to avoid ads as much as possible. I haven’t seen or heard an ad in a long time aside from billboards and posters which are basically impossible to avoid.
Ads are basically paid graffiti
I think they’re worse then that though. They attempt to manipulate and influence. Graffiti just kind of there. Advertising attempts to look like its just there so it can actually pull some tricks on you. Its a messed up industry.
After all it is what spawned climate denialism and confusion between cigarettes and cancer among other issues that we have to be convinced of otherwise we might actually make a better societal choice. Hell The grandfather of modern advertising Edward Bernays leveraged what he know of human nature and sub consciousness to build this industry.
Sure almost all ads are benign individually. But as an industry they’re pretty evil. Hell if it wasn’t for ads, we wouldn’t have lost the internet to the shit show it is today. All the identity stealing, data collection and propaganda machines were spawned because we ignored the growing cancer that is online ads.
When I grew up there was a big push to reject ads and corporate spread. Even sub cultures like punk was focused on rejecting that growing bullshit. Then it all stopped. Like the ads won and now you’re the insane one if you say that advertising is a major issue in society today. Now every kid wants their own sponsorships and some do get it.
There actually is paid graffiti. Most that I’ve seen looks absolutely awesome. It’s insane what a graffiti artist can do when they got plenty time and don’t have to watch out to not be caught.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Hmm, sorry my associate was meaning “temporary solution”, about every year you will need a new one. And we are so generous that if you buy two years in advance we will give you a 10% rebate and a big ole sticker with our brand in bold colors on it so you can give us free publicity.
We beat scarcity. We’re up to our eyeballs in labor-saving technology. We just left people in charge who cannot imagine using it to save labor.
It’s about control. They don’t want to lose that control. They don’t deserve that control. We need to take control back.
You don’t deserve control either.
This is public interest ad made by myself- use your fu*king brain consumer brainnnn
Exactly, automation shouldn’t kick some people out of jobs and leave others just as overworked as before, it should automate things that don’t absolutely need humans and just decrease the workload of (currently) irreplaceable people so that more people can work as much as one did before and still get the same salary.
Hell, unemployment as a whole should not exist in the modern era. If there’s “too few jobs”, decrease working hours and increase wages accordingly so the total monthly/yearly/whatever pay is the same. And if there just physically aren’t enough resources to accomodate so many people having decent salaries (which is absolutely not the case right now), then we should start talking about overpopulation.
But have you considered the following:
Capitalism good because freedom and innovation.
Bet you feel dumb now.
I bet OP posted this using an iphone, I am very ismart vuvusela
/s
No because freedom and innovation have nothing to do with capitalism? If anything the opposite?
It’s sarcasm friend, I know capitalism is basically the opposite of that.
What! You mean I can’t make new things or grow because of financial predators?
Darn, what was I thinking /s
Mhh yes freedom through capitalism. I love the freedom Apple gives me over their device that I bought but don’t own. Or when Samsung locks devices in mexico because they can and people in mexico dare to buy used phones.
The thing about capitalism is that it DOES promote freedom and innovation. The problem is that continuous innovation is rarely profitable so companies generally won’t bother innovating after a certain point and the text on the reverse side of the freedom coin is “free from consequences”
Capitalism is like… a good start to a much better economic system we haven’t figured out yet.
The sight of Theresa May dance-walking to ABBA was an insult to the United Kingdom and Sweden :(
It was also an insult to walking and dancing
and sight and insults
The worst thing is that she’s not even in the bottom three Prime Ministers any more.
Thatcher, Johnson, Truss?
Cunt, Clown, and…who?
What about Chamberlain?
What’s wrong with her? She did the thing people had voted for.
Yes
The worst attack to British-Swedish relations and culture since the Beowulf movie
“I’ve made a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”
“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”
…
You’re still going to pay the other nine, right?
So the ten men can all do a tenth of the labor now right?
Oh you’re going to fire nine, cut the tenth’s pay, and make him work even longer hours, and keep the vast majority of the profits for yourself, got it. That’s fine too I guess…
For more info on how automation works under capitalism, read chapters 15-16 of capital
Chapter 15: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm
There are a loooot of extra words in there, that seem unnecessary. I’ve read pages and pages now, and it’s just repeating meaningless words without reaching a conclusion. I have no idea what it’s trying to convey.
He does spend several pages worth of mobile phone screen just setting up his premises. What meaningless words are you referring to?
I don’t have the patience to read 20 pages with no arrival at any conclusion. Is there somewhere I can just read a summary of the conclusions?
“I’ve
madebought a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”
“Why? I bought it to get more of the money to myself. Why would I pay for something and get nothing in return? Why would I just lose money for no reason?”
Seriously though, the dynamics are pretty clear, there’s no investment without the expectation for extra profit (even for a state. Invest in a new railroad with the expectation of higher economic activity and therefore more taxes). Otherwise it’s just charity
What if the teen men are the ones who own the machine?
deleted by creator
I hope for your sake that when the factory workers can’t afford to feed their kids and they drag you from your home and try to beat you to death in front of your family they find that argument compelling.
If you still pay the other 9,why would you even look for a machine though?
Maybe the machine also does it with less waste and more consistently, the same reason woodworkers make jigs for complex cuts or identical parts.
Still investing and taking recurring upkeep costs for something that may or may not yield more income.
I created a new email service that prevents spam and organized your email. If it works out and I become successful, I can imagine Google trying to buy it, and if I say no, all of a sudden Gmail starts having issues receiving mail from my service. Gmail and Exchange together share about 70% of the business email market, so they can destroy smaller competitors if they aren’t willing to sell. Yay capitalism!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Email vs. Capitalism, or, Why We Can’t Have Nice Things.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Oh I haven’t seen that one yet. Beatie’s talks are always great.
I will never get tired of seeing these pictures
US healthcare system in a nutshell. Said nut cost $120 in hospital bill.
Unregulated capitalism that made worse by the lack of QOL improvements by the govt is what made these new shitty electronics and tools profitable.
Cubicle went from utopia to dystopia in not even a week.
My favorite thing about this comment section is the ratio of comment score and comment length
Ahha this works nice, now lets break it
How do you expect it to be free?
As we sit in a capitalist society surrounded by incredible technology zero people could afford ten years ago.
Yeah capitalism. Always ruining everything 🙄
In case you want the good faith counterargument (I know, I know, socialist wall of text):
I’d be willing to bet you have a different definition of “capitalism” compared to socialists. For most people, capitalism is just trade, markets, commerce, etc. None of that is incompatible with socialism (broadly speaking). When socialists talk about capitalism, they’re referring, specifically, to private ownership of capital. It’s not the buying and selling, it’s that ownership of companies is separate from labor.
We don’t owe technological development to capitalists, we owe it to engineers, scientists, and researchers. We owe art to artists, performance to performers. Socialists want those people to be the primary beneficiaries of their own work, not someone who may or may not even work at a company, but whose wealth means they can profit off of other people’s labor by virtue of owning the property those people need to do their jobs.
And you’ve probably been bothered by enshittification in one form or another. Some product or service you like has probably gotten worse over time. That’s not a decision made by the people who take pride in their creation, or the laborers who want long-term security. It comes from the capitalist class that doesn’t really give a shit about any of that, they just want quarterly profits, long-term survival be damned. That’s capitalism, as the meme was getting at.
You can take this further, and discuss how many empty homes are owned by corporations that are sitting empty, along with how many homeless people there are in the richest country in the world. Or how much food is thrown away while people remain hungry. Both of these things are happening because housing homeless people and feeding hungry people just aren’t profitable.
That’s my main problem with American capitalism. Along with capital owning our politicians and passing anti-competitive laws designed to allow the ones at the top to stay at the top unchallenged. That’s probably a different discussion though. The “Free Market” is a myth.
Absolutely. While I can be convinced on markets for some things (with regulation to protect consumers and prevent monopolies), it completely falls apart in others. Necessities absolutely should not rely on free markets because capital holders hold an extortionate amount of power, most people have little to none, and if it’s more profitable to let some people die, then the profit motive will let those people die.
Necessities must rely on free markets because free markets are the only mechanisms productive enough to cover those necessities.
Health care, education, and housing are three markets that we have attempted to control on the basis that they’re necessary so we shouldn’t take any chances.
As a result, health care, education, and housing are ultra expensive and scarce, and major sources of stress and worth for people.
But far more fundamental than any of those, and hence capable of producing far greater suffering when lacking, is food. Food is a much more free market than health care, education, and housing, and as a result food is abundant and cheap.
The constantly-driven message that capitalism cuts people off from things is deep within our brains. And it makes sense: you imagine someone wanting to eat and not having money and they don’t eat and that’s a horrible thought. But it’s not what happens. We buy and sell food all the time, and we also give enormous amounts of food to people for free. Heck we just had an annual ritual last night based on giving people food. I flew a sign once that said “food only please” and I ate very well. Like, people saw that sign and went to buy me a $50 steak then came back to give it to me.
All I’m saying is: please just try and differentiate between the things that are mostly handled by free market, and the things that are centrally controlled, and then ask yourself what is abundant and what is scarce.
I think you’ll find that capitalism gives more away as an afterthought than other economic systems even produce in total.
In 2018, 11.1% of American households were food insecure. While this is better than many developing and historically colonized countries, this statistic is still worse than for many other developed nations.
Health care in the US is so expensive because there is currently a capitalistic private ownership of insurance because historic efforts for socialized medicine were crushed by the ruling class. Additionally, efforts to implement socialized programs have been systematically handicapped by private insurance company stakeholders.
In Finland, a country with socialized education, tertiary education is free to citizens. In the US, the average cost of attendance to a public university, the cheapest category of 4-year tertiary institution, is $26,000.
Housing prices are skyrocketing because private equity groups and hedge funds are rapidly buying property to drive up prices for profit.
You are pointing out problems that capitalism and free markets have given us, and pointing the finger at socialism, when efforts to socialize each of these necessities have been systematically squashed. You are contributing to misinformation by writing this post. Please do some research and back up your claims with reliable sources before spouting nonsense you don’t understand on the internet.
The thing is, that separation of capital owner and worker that you’re referring to is the arrangement people come to when given the freedom to choose their arrangements.
To me capitalism is defined by free markets. A free market is one in which the economic relationships are consensual.
Turns out, many people would rather have a steady job than be in business for themselves. I’ve done both, and I see the merits of both. Right now, I choose to work for a huge corporation. As long as I show up I get paid. That’s working well for me.
What you’re referring to as the laborers getting the benefit of their labor is something that’s already permissible in a free market, and it happens a lot. I was a freelance software developer for many years. I also had a business building and selling easels. And cookies. And smoothies, on a subscription model. You read that right: smoothie subscriptions.
So while it may seem that my definition based on free markets, and your definition based on the separation of ownership and labor, are different definitions, I see them as the same thing.
Or maybe, to be precise, free markets lead to capital accumulation and when capital accumulates beyond an individual’s ability to work it themselves and they hire someone else to work it, capitalism begins. So maybe free markets lead to capitalism by your definition, as a state of wealth distribution and a set of working relationships.
The real key point is that this set of relationships you call capitalism, is the natural result of people being free to do as they see fit.
To me capitalism is defined by free markets. A free market is one in which the economic relationships are consensual.
If you think a system where the means of production are owned by a class of people and another class of people must sell their labor power in order to survive (the definition of capitalism according to Marx) is full of consensual economic relationships I worry about your definition of consent.
The means of production are not entirely owned by a seperate class nor is the barrier to entry for many industries so high that it is entirely impossible for the average joe to enter.
Sure some industries are nigh impossible to get into, like pharmaceuticals for example, there are much bigger industries that have lower barriers like machine shops (which are really medium entry but you can scale them), and manufacturing via 3d print hubs.
Not to mention aoftware development which is a fucking wonder when it comes to potential money vs barrier to entry.
Certain construction contractors and engineering consulting firms can be opened up with fairly low barrier to entry.
I’m sleepy so my replies may not seem very coherent so tell me if you don’t understand what im saying
Look up how much debt the average US citizen is in and tell me what low barrier to entry industries they can break into
Good things exist, pay no attention to the bad things!
I’d love for people to stop using capitalism as a catch-all term for every wrong in the world. This post illustrates a great reason why.
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. This means every private citizen has control over that which they own, and is free to sell it. In short, it’s characterized by a free market, because everybody is free to sell whatever they want.
The reason people view this favorably is because if, for example, someone is selling some really useful farming tool, they’re free to sell it at whatever price they want. But, someone else - who is also free to sell whatever they please - might figure out an alternative or their own way to assemble this tool. They can now sell it for a lower price to get more customers, thus forcing the original inventor to bring down the price as well. As a result, the farming world becomes more efficient thanks to innovation and market forces.
I feel like most people understand market forces, so I’m sorry if I’m not saying anything new yet, but it’s crucial for seeing the flaw in the next part…
Modern medicine is not controlled by private entities, and they are not operating in a free market. The conditions that allow for market forces simply does not exist in Canada or America (probably Europe too but I know less about their system to get into details).
Take Johnson and Johnson for example. For one thing, they are not a private entity, they are incorporated and act in the collective interest of its shareholders. If capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production (which it is!) then immoral acts they take cannot be attributed to capitalism.
Now consider their business, aside from who owns and controls them. They have a medicine called Stelara, which has no generic alternative. They have an effective Monopoly on this Crohn’s medicine, becauae no one else is allowed to sell medicine of the same chemical composition until the patent wears out and it’s genericized. This patent is enforced by the state. So, the state enforces a ruling that prevents private business from selling medicine, which gives the corporation an effective Monopoly.
So we have a public entity, using state-enforced rules to prevent a private business from controlling the means of producing that medicine. That’s completely anti-capitalistic from every angle I can think of
When a new medicine is invented, and a company marks up the price to high heaven, it’s not because they’re a capitalist and thus greedy, that simply shows anti-capitalist bias. It’s because the state and the laws they enforce give them the opportunity to.
People can be greedy whether they’re capitalist or not, so don’t use it as an indicator for the flaw in capitalism because you’ll just be wrong a lot of the time, because they’re independent things
For one thing, they are not a private entity, they are incorporated and act in the collective interest of its shareholders.
Jesus fucking Christ, you think “private” means “individual.”
You know less than nothing about this subject. Don’t give lectures.
Yep, communism isn’t state-owned means of production as this post implied, it’s democratic - that’s one of the reasons the USSR model failed.
That is far from the wrongest idea in that comment!
True, but it is one of them
All this ignores that the free market naturally converges on monopolies and that these monopolies will pay off the government to continue being a monopoly in their respective industry or industries. If the government had less control then even better since they wouldn’t have to pay off as many people.
Why do they have to pay off the government? You’re still assuming some government control, but in a truly free market capitalist system, the government would not have any influence in the market anyway, so paying them off would yield 0 results. You directly say the less government control the better, that’s a deeply capitalistic sentiment.
I feel as though you’re also assuming I’m 100% advocating for what I’m describing. This is incorrect, because I believe some statehood is necessary to ward off the inherent chaos of a completely free society. The one and only point my post makes, is that the systemic flaw pointed out by the post is absolutely not a capitalist one, regardless of political alignment the post is incorrect.
Whether you’re more capitalistic or socialistic, the first step to solving a problem is proper diagnosis.
You’re saying it’s not capitalist because of government involvement, but the government has to be involved in order to enforce capitalism. A private entity can claim ownership over something, but what enforces that claim? I said “the less government control the better” as in better for the monopolistic companies who wouldn’t have regulators threatening to break up their monopoly or having to pay them off.
I didn’t say anything regarding what you advocate, I’m just pointing out that capitalism requires statement enforcement, so pretending that government involvement is not capitalist is wrong. I’m also pointing out that the situation would be worse without certain regulations such as anti-trust laws because capitalism naturally converges on monopolies.
I agree government needs to be involved to an extent. My comment was still correct, the issues of medicine do not stem from capitalism. This does not mean capitalism is without flaw
I feel as though you’re also assuming I’m 100% advocating for what I’m describing
i think you’re missing it. Government for as glacial and corrupt and corruptible as it is, is the only buffer from the excess of a free market.
businesses without a guardrail HAVE proven they will sacrifice everything, literally everything in the name of profit.
Oil companies have know for about a century that they are destroying the planet and they are *still * doing it. They fight every regulation that stops them tooth and nail. They buy and shelve technologies that would cut into their profit. Imagine a world where there was no one trying to stop them at all?
That is the proper diagnosis of our system. We have allowed unaccountable immoral groups to control the means of production and they are literally using it to with kill us all.
I’m not missing it, that’s just a different point. I don’t disagree with everything you say here, it just doesn’t really address or refute anything I said. I stuck with the topical example of helpful medicine, which is demonstrably controlled by corporations and the state. Thus, it is not at all capitalist.
businesses without a guardrail HAVE proven they will sacrifice everything, literally everything in the name of profit. Hence why market competition should be encouraged, right? Which businesses are you referring to, public ones or private ones? (they both do it btw, don’t pin it on private)
Reminder: profit does not mean capitalist, market does not mean capitalist. Public bodies can act in and/or control markets, and they can make profit. That’s not a private thing
Please feel free to point out any fact you think I got wrong.
The whole thing my guy, You clearly have no idea what Capitalism is. . . Fucking hell that bit you wrote about Corporations not being a part of the Capitalist system because they are incorporated and not privately owned. Comedy gold, if you weren’t being sincere. Economists that support Capitalism would laugh at that word salad you wrote, its just so fucking dumb it hurts.
Public corporations are absolutely not private :)
I don’t really need to point out that you’re actually just being really rude and lashing out at someone who’s challenged your beliefs, I don’t think anyone could read your comment and see anything different whether they agree with you or not. But, I’m still happy to reason out why exactly a public corporation is not private. I don’t mind taking the time to go over the facts and leave a few references, even if I don’t really expect you to read any of it in good faith. You just should know that everything I said actually can be directly reasoned from respected sources.
For starters, would you dispute my definition of capitalism? “The private ownership and/or control of the means of production”. Not only is this from Marx himself, but you’d be hard pressed to find any capitalists who would describe it any other way. It’s widely accepted all across the isle.
I think that’s a pretty strong start in knowing what capitalism is. I guess what might be left for debate is what can rightfully be called “private”.
Private Ownership:
- the fact of being owned by a private individual or organization, rather than by the state or a public body. (I googled “define private ownership”)
- Private companies are owned by those who establish them and those invited to invest in them. The public-at-large cannot buy shares or otherwise invest in private companies at their own discretion.
Public Ownership:
- A public company is a company that has sold a portion of itself to the public via an initial public offering (IPO), meaning shareholders have a claim to part of the company’s assets and profits. (Same source)
- ownership by the government of an asset, corporation, or industry. (I googled “define public ownership”)
So, if it’s owned by the government, or has shares available for purchase by any public body, then it is public. If it’s not owned by the state or public body, it’s private.
Johnson & Johnson, just like all public corporations, has its shares available for purchase for the public. Therefor, it is public, not private. Honestly, the more you go into it, the harder it is to get away from the simple fact that private means private, and public means public.
Corporation, specific legal form of organization of persons and material resources, chartered by the state, for the purpose of conducting business.
As contrasted with the other two major forms of business ownership, the sole proprietorship and the partnership, the corporation is distinguished by a number of characteristics that make it a more-flexible instrument for large-scale economic activity, particularly for the purpose of raising large sums of capital for investment. Chief among these features are: (1) limited liability, meaning that capital suppliers are not subject to losses greater than the amount of their investment; (2) transferability of shares, whereby voting and other rights in the enterprise may be transferred readily from one investor to another without reconstituting the organization under law; (3) juridical personality, meaning that the corporation itself as a fictive “person” has legal standing and may thus sue and be sued, may make contracts, and may hold property in a common name; and (4) indefinite duration, whereby the life of the corporation may extend beyond the participation of any of its incorporators. The owners of the corporation in a legal sense are the shareholders, who purchase with their investment of capital a share in the proceeds of the enterprise and who are nominally entitled to a measure of control over the financial management of the corporation. Corporation
We live in a world with limited resources. Late stage capitalism is characterized partly by a concentration of wealth. Anyone that has played the board game Monopoly understands the issues with the concentration of wealth, and access to concentrated wealth in a world of limited resources accords a few individuals almost unlimited power over the majority.
Limiting government regulations over fiscal entities just trades governmental tyranny for corporate tyranny over the working-class.
That’s a popular belief, sure. But, limited resources aren’t the only thing that exist in markets (art, ideas, services, consultation, etc…). In fact, much of the necessary resource market is entirely renewable (most food certainly is).
Limiting government regulations over fiscal entities just trades governmental tyranny for corporate tyranny over the working-class.
It’s just kinda funny that this is your response when I demonstrated state-corporate cooperation inflicting that tyranny. Corporations are chartered by the state, and the are currently also empowered by the state. Lowering regulations for private entities would empower them against corporations. It would also just make sense considering they are more regulated than corporations are currently, and the market is already completely captured by corporations.
This has given me alot to think about.
I’m glad :)
